|
Post by Interesting on Aug 6, 2018 10:13:08 GMT -5
I just got alerted that they will be charging almost double for using electricity during the 2PM-8PM hours during the summer and 4PM-9PM hours during the winter. During off-peak, it's almost halved.
DOUBLE.
This was meant to penalize using the AC during the summer, and lighting during the winter, to encourage people to use less during these times.
My political question: is this charging of DOUBLE during peak hours a leftist political move or simply best business practice because of "supply and demand" - simple economics, charge more when demand is high?
And the off question: Will those incandescent lamp users consider using other forms of lighting to reduce costs?
My beef: There is one task I cannot avoid the double power cost is the beef (or chicken or broccoli or pasta ...)
|
|
rodking3
All Star Member
It's not mine either.
Posts: 13,528
|
Post by rodking3 on Aug 7, 2018 1:56:56 GMT -5
"I just got alerted that they will be charging almost double". This mind needs to know, who are they?
Is the rate double the established rate during the "Peak Hours", or is it 50% off the established rate during "Off-Peak"?
|
|
|
Post by Interesting on Aug 7, 2018 11:15:00 GMT -5
It's actually a local Co-op versus a publicly traded company, and not releasing name for privacy concerns, because they are a monopoly.
Let me scare/clarify further: The "peak" hours will be FOUR times the "off peak" hours. Peak will be about double the current cost, off peak will be half the current cost.
Say the current price is 11¢/kWh. The peak price will be 22¢/kWh, off peak price will be 6¢/kWh.
My quick back of the envelope calculations indicate my costs won't change much as I don't use the air conditioning much and have mostly LED/CFL lighting, but cooking dinner will cost more and I can't avoid that. Granted cooking costs will be only marginally more expensive, less if you're a microwaver versus a baker (be it convection oven or toaster oven). Cost will probably no more than a dime a day (x 30 days = $3/month) but it may be offset by the cheaper electricity used during other times of the day. Remember this is cooking only, unavoidable AC will cost more.
|
|
rodking3
All Star Member
It's not mine either.
Posts: 13,528
|
Post by rodking3 on Aug 8, 2018 10:54:16 GMT -5
The area I live in has power supplied through a Co-op too, so I should probably see something like this happen one of these days. And I'm sure it may be related to the big blitz the Co-op had to get "Smart" meters installed in this area.
Thanks for the reply!
|
|
|
Post by Interesting on Aug 10, 2018 8:16:10 GMT -5
Yep, those "smart" meters allow power companies to pull these shenanigans. For the most part, generating a kWh during peak and generating a kWh during off peak costs them about the same (unless they have to on-line another generator). So during peak hours, they're getting double for their costs. ame (unless they have to on-line another generator). So during peak hours, they're getting double for their costs.
Keep in mind these power consumers: -Refrigerators. 24/7. Net likely about the same as before unless ambient temperature is higher during peak hours, then power costs will go up slightly. -Outdoor nighttime lighting. Net decrease in costs -Evening lighting. Double costs. If you have two 60W lamps lit 3 hours a night during peak hours, that will be $2.20/month instead of $1.10/month. If you had LEDs and used during the same peak hours, it would be 22 cents/month. -TV and entertainment costs: net increase in costs because likely used during peak hours. -Electric Cooking, net increase. Usually people don't cook elaborate meals during lunch or breakfast, but if they do, it may be a wash overall. Or if people use slow cookers during off peak, it would be a win. -Car charging for electric cars. Likely you're charging at night: Significant decrease in costs as long as you plug in or time it after peak hours. -Dishwashers and washing machines - try to time and you get a win though not a killer if you don't. Except washing machines you have to deal with... -Electric dryer. If you time it to use it only off peak, significant decrease in power costs, else it could also increase costs but no more than a buck or so per month. -Electric water heating. Likely a net win as if it's timed right, it will use off peak electricity. -Air conditioning, this is hard to time and you get a net increase in power costs.
Air is usually dry around here and fans/swamp coolers are effective...
|
|
|
Post by Interesting on Nov 11, 2018 1:44:18 GMT -5
OMG, I hope they get their accounting straight. I was looking at the webpage on my new current month costs - with the newfangled time of day cost changing. The webpage had an estimate of over DOUBLE my usual costs! However the hour by hour costs, is about the same as before...
I sure hope it's the latter.
The thing that kills me is the evening cooking. Can't get around that, it's virtually all resistive heating. Unless people like microwaved foods, this is going to hurt. Not sure if induction heating is a win here or not but cooking takes a lot of electricity.
Now whether switching to gas is a good idea or not, seems so, if it didn't require me hooking in a gas line.
The other thing is if one has capability of net metering and pumping power back during peak hours, should get a higher credit...
|
|
|
Post by Interesting on Nov 20, 2018 3:17:38 GMT -5
Oh the horrors! They charge on 15 minute intervals, but they start charging 3x at 5PM. What they didn't tell people is that the 15 minute period that the 5PM block started at 4:45PM... BOOOOOOOOOO...
|
|
|
Post by sneakers (Metro Houston) on Dec 20, 2018 20:13:39 GMT -5
In Texas, at least one of the Retail Electric Providers (TXU Energy) waives the energy charges for use at night. Don't know the exact hours. Despite what their ads say, it's not "free power" because you still have to pay transmission and distribution charges to the local poles and wires company (CenterPoint Energy Houston Electric, in my case). IIRC, that totals up to about $0.04/kWh.
I was offered a time-of-day service by my current Retail Electric Provider (Reliant Energy, NRG Energy's main brand in the Texas ERCOT market; they have at least three others that largely conceal their NRG ownership) when I signed up last time. Although I found they make the offers better if you go to their Website, look at the offers, think about it, and come back later. Probably because they assume you're going out to "Power to Choose" and see what the competition has to offer.
|
|
|
Post by Interesting on Dec 20, 2018 21:39:21 GMT -5
It would be interesting to find out what the "night" hours are and go mine your bitcoins at then. 4¢/kWh is still cheap.
It gets cold enough here that if electricity is cheap enough, people would use it to heat houses and this is probably the most expensive way to heat. Electric driers are a travesty, as well as electric hot water heaters -- worse with a dishwasher or washing machine.
I suspect heating houses isn't as big of a concern in Texas, at least most regions...
|
|
|
Post by sneakers (Metro Houston) on Dec 20, 2018 22:20:13 GMT -5
It gets cold enough here that if electricity is cheap enough, people would use it to heat houses and this is probably the most expensive way to heat. Electric driers are a travesty, as well as electric hot water heaters -- worse with a dishwasher or washing machine. I suspect heating houses isn't as big of a concern in Texas, at least most regions... I have to watch the thermostat around here lest it be turned to 77 in the winter. That said, almost everything in the house radiates heat as a byproduct of it operating.
When I lived in Alabama, the preacher had Saturday night prayer services at 9:00 PM for a coalition of the willing. We spent about half the time walking around the buildings adjusting the thermostats so our four buildings would be comfortable Sunday morning.
|
|
|
Post by Interesting on Dec 21, 2018 2:18:02 GMT -5
Keeping a house at 77 would cost big bucks when there would be a 60 degree temperature differential from inside to outside...
It sounds like a central control would be good for those buildings...
|
|
|
Post by sneakers (Metro Houston) on Dec 21, 2018 18:29:01 GMT -5
Electric utilities have been doing load shaping for at least forty years. Up to recently, it's been by sending central commands by radio to a coalition of willing customers, sweetened by a few dollars off of the electric bill.
Now, they have enough smarts in the grid in most large systems to track usage in something close to real-time.
I get a weekly summary E-mail every Monday from my Retail Electric Provider. You definitely can tell that the resistance heating in the house is cranking up in the wee small hours of the morning.
|
|
|
Post by sneakers (Metro Houston) on Dec 21, 2018 18:47:00 GMT -5
Yep, those "smart" meters allow power companies to pull these shenanigans. For the most part, generating a kWh during peak and generating a kWh during off peak costs them about the same (unless they have to on-line another generator). So during peak hours, they're getting double for their costs. Back in the 1960s, one of the investor-owned utilities in Missouri did a pumped hydro storage plant (essentially a huge battery). The economics of it was they'd use three off-peak kWh to pump water up a mountain, then during peak hours they'd get two kWh back. And they ended out ahead on the deal because peak kWh were expensive to produce.
The pumped hydro plant is still in use, but they had a software bug a while back and they pumped too much water up the mountain and ruined the upper reservoir. Created a major flood, as you can imagine.
On the ERCOT grid, they sometimes have negative power prices at night. The wind blows the strongest around Abilene at night. I used to live there, it was rare that they had a day when the wind didn't blow. If you're curious, you can look at ERCOT's data. Electric demand goes down at night, while available supply goes up.
|
|
|
Post by Interesting on Dec 22, 2018 0:10:40 GMT -5
That is true, if they have no way to store the energy (photovoltaic or wind), it technically doesn't hurt them to give the energy away for free as it would need to be dumped somewhere.
No longer the case if they can fill a reservoir with water or store in batteries.
I do wonder why they bother with negative prices unless they were depending on users for voltage regulation...
|
|
|
Post by sneakers (Metro Houston) on Apr 20, 2019 16:47:02 GMT -5
I was offered a time-of-day service by my current Retail Electric Provider (Reliant Energy, NRG Energy's main brand in the Texas ERCOT market; they have at least three others that largely conceal their NRG ownership) when I signed up last time. Although I found they make the offers better if you go to their Website, look at the offers, think about it, and come back later. Probably because they assume you're going out to "Power to Choose" and see what the competition has to offer. Got to the end of my fixed-price contract and decided to stick with Reliant for a two-year fixed-price contract. I can get out of it if I move to an area where they don't do electricity, else it's a $200 early termination fee. Except this time I decided to take the time-of-day dependent offer. It's not as dramatic as the original poster ran into, but then the peak hours aren't $0.22/kWh either.
I noted that the average Texas customer now gets 19% of their electricity from renewable sources. I could have taken a 100% renewable product for a fraction of a cent per kWh more. Most of the non-renewable sources are either natural gas or cheap nuclear in the ERCOT market. A bunch of coal plants got imploded a few years ago.
|
|