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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 10, 2018 20:39:56 GMT -5
In "that other place," SemiSteve started this topic under the title, "There is no God. Here is why."
He asked 3 questions, which as best as I can remember are below, along with the answers I gave on at least 3 occasions:
1. Who created God?
My answer: No one. God is uncreated, needing no cause.
2. Why did God create everything?
My answer (which evolved over time): I don't know. Ask Him! But Genesis 1:31 in the creation story gives us a clue: "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good."
3. What did God do all the billions of years before He created everything?
My answer: There was no "before" the Creation. When God created the universe, He also created time. God Himself is eternal, existing outside time.
My answer to the first question refer to what I consider the most compelling proof of God's existence: the First Cause argument.
That is, either there is an endless infinite series of causes, or One Cause which came first -- a cause Itself needing no other cause which caused everything else that is. That Cause is God.
Comments? Rebuttals? Additional proofs for God?
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Post by timothyu on Apr 11, 2018 13:04:30 GMT -5
People are so hung up on this universe and our comprehension of it, they really can't see the forest for the trees.
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Post by penngas on May 15, 2018 16:23:22 GMT -5
The story of "god" is a rather new one, and there are many stories that pre-date that and the story of Jesus. Just ask yourself this simple question; what do you remember before you were born? That's right, you remember nothing because you didn't exist. It will be the exact same thing when you are dead with the exception that you will never know you even lived because you'll never again be conscious. God is a story that was partly made up to gain control over the masses and it is also a story used to soothe and calm people who are afraid of death. The by-product of the story of god was to enrich the select few while keeping the masses poor and under their control.
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Post by timothyu on May 15, 2018 17:18:30 GMT -5
Religion, not God, was created for that purpose. Religion, yes, was created to control the masses manipulating and using God to do so. Just as God is used on a daily basis, especially in the US to self justify actions that are opposite to what God teaches. That much of your statement rings partially true.
Penngas... consider this...
Now consider artificial intelligence being created. Will that intelligence be aware of anything outside it's own existence, let alone a creator? Will it ask what it's creator did before it's own creation? If an AI contraption 'dies' would it be possible to reboot a new one using data perhaps stored in the cloud? We don't know what our creator is like any more than plastic'metal AI knows what we are like.
AI can be taught to mimic the ways of its creator/god but will it ever really understand our universe compared to it's own?
Also consider the implication we all are aware of through movies that artificial intelligence may eventually rebel against man. How is that different than when man rebelled against our Creator/God? Would not both have self determined what is good and evil?
Was our Creator/God the beginning or just another new path in a long chain of creators creating AI in their own images?
Will AI eventually come to the same conclusions you just did? Could it not eventually create it's own rebellious new form of 'life'?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 18:28:14 GMT -5
1. why do most the replies here not quote scripture (OT scripture )? I am not really interested in what ordinary man has to say.
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Post by timothyu on May 29, 2018 19:06:08 GMT -5
OT scripture as preferred to a kinder gentler NT scripture that contradicts today's politically revised religions?
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mexicomaria
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Post by mexicomaria on Aug 14, 2019 22:04:18 GMT -5
Timothyu....The topic above is referring to Creation, that is why the OT is needed to see what God had to say about creation. Creation is discussed in OT.
Now, if you want to talk about Rebirth, New Birth, Salvation, or Born Again...that would be in NT...
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mexicomaria
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Post by mexicomaria on Aug 14, 2019 22:07:56 GMT -5
Timothyu....The topic above is referring to Creation, that is why the OT is needed to see what God had to say about creation. Creation is discussed in OT.
Now, if you want to talk about Rebirth, New Birth, Salvation, or Born Again...that would be in NT...
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Aug 15, 2019 21:40:29 GMT -5
1. why do most the replies here not quote scripture (OT scripture )? I am not really interested in what ordinary man has to say. The predecessor topic in That Other Place served the purpose of dialogue and debate between non-believers (like SemiSteve) and believers. Since non-believers don't recognize the authority of Scripture, there were not many quotes.
None of those atheists like Steve or ldheinz came over to GBO. (For that matter, the JW cultists, primarily chipmunk2, didn't come over, either). So this topic has languished, unless and until atheists come forward to challenge God's existence. (The sole representative of the Church of Timothyu isn't able to be coherent in a debate, but he at least believes God's existence, if not the nature of His revelation).
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mexicomaria
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Post by mexicomaria on Aug 16, 2019 21:02:28 GMT -5
? is.....does Tim believe Christ is God? God the Holy Spirit, God the father, God the Son. That is the question for today.
It is extremely important for all to define who God is.....then you can pretty much tell in whom they believe. Define terms with JWitness as they terms mean totally different things than scripture definition.
gth "Comments? Rebuttals? Additional proofs for God?" I saw Christ. He spoke three words to me..."Rest now Mary. He looked like Revelation 1:17- to end. My life changed drastically overnight, but I am a work still in progress. I have entered God's rest. God rested after his creating: I entered God's rest. It is well with my soul.
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weaslespit
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Post by weaslespit on Aug 19, 2019 12:07:33 GMT -5
1. why do most the replies here not quote scripture (OT scripture )? I am not really interested in what ordinary man has to say. The predecessor topic in That Other Place served the purpose of dialogue and debate between non-believers (like SemiSteve) and believers. Since non-believers don't recognize the authority of Scripture, there were not many quotes.
None of those atheists like Steve or ldheinz came over to GBO. (For that matter, the JW cultists, primarily chipmunk2, didn't come over, either). So this topic has languished, unless and until atheists come forward to challenge God's existence. (The sole representative of the Church of Timothyu isn't able to be coherent in a debate, but he at least believes God's existence, if not the nature of His revelation). I actually find the vast majority of Timothyu's posts to be very insightful. His posts follow the closest to His teachings... Unfortunately few care to read and respond to his comments, much less understand them.
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Aug 19, 2019 12:45:11 GMT -5
? is.....does Tim believe Christ is God? God the Holy Spirit, God the father, God the Son. That is the question for today. It is extremely important for all to define who God is.....then you can pretty much tell in whom they believe. Define terms with JWitness as they terms mean totally different things than scripture definition. gth "Comments? Rebuttals? Additional proofs for God?" I saw Christ. He spoke three words to me..."Rest now Mary. He looked like Revelation 1:17- to end. My life changed drastically overnight, but I am a work still in progress. I have entered God's rest. God rested after his creating: I entered God's rest. It is well with my soul. I too encountered Jesus Christ through the ministry of the Holy Spirit, in an experience I could describe as being "born again" or "filled with the Holy Spirit" or a "Damascus Road encounter".
However, your experience, and mine, are personal to us, and not a "proof" in the strict sense. (If our lives are changed, they could be proof to those who know us).
I hoped that in answering Steve, that intellectual barriers he and others might have to knowing God might be eliminated. Of course, the most important barriers to knowing God are never strictly intellectual.
As to whether timothyu believes in God as Trinity -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit -- I questioned him at length on that in the past. At one point he affirmed the Trinity, but subsequent postings indicated otherwise. My best guess is that he doesn't see that as important for a Christian to believe.
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weaslespit
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Post by weaslespit on Aug 20, 2019 8:13:10 GMT -5
? is.....does Tim believe Christ is God? God the Holy Spirit, God the father, God the Son. That is the question for today. It is extremely important for all to define who God is.....then you can pretty much tell in whom they believe. Define terms with JWitness as they terms mean totally different things than scripture definition. gth "Comments? Rebuttals? Additional proofs for God?" I saw Christ. He spoke three words to me..."Rest now Mary. He looked like Revelation 1:17- to end. My life changed drastically overnight, but I am a work still in progress. I have entered God's rest. God rested after his creating: I entered God's rest. It is well with my soul. I too encountered Jesus Christ through the ministry of the Holy Spirit, in an experience I could describe as being "born again" or "filled with the Holy Spirit" or a "Damascus Road encounter".
However, your experience, and mine, are personal to us, and not a "proof" in the strict sense. (If our lives are changed, they could be proof to those who know us).
I hoped that in answering Steve, that intellectual barriers he and others might have to knowing God might be eliminated. Of course, the most important barriers to knowing God are never strictly intellectual.
As to whether timothyu believes in God as Trinity -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit -- I questioned him at length on that in the past. At one point he affirmed the Trinity, but subsequent postings indicated otherwise. My best guess is that he doesn't see that as important for a Christian to believe. I find it amusing to see gth posting on religious matters, given how little he seems to follow His teachings based on his posts. Far too many personal attacks against individual posters...
Whether people believe God exists or not is essentially immaterial - if we all simply follow His teachings and stop trying to judge others (love they neighbor), the world would be a better place.
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mexicomaria
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Post by mexicomaria on Aug 23, 2019 22:51:02 GMT -5
Although, this is what Christ said, ....... 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14
Seems clear to me....you can say to someone....do you believe the above verse....some will say "ya but" then they start changing the verse which is very clear. It is a good test for those who claim to be Christian but are not. It does matter to me.....the souls of the lost. Christ asked us to make disciples of men. He didn't make us guess....he was straight with us.
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doozij
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Post by doozij on Jan 2, 2020 0:54:18 GMT -5
does god exist!? define EXIST!!
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