RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Mar 28, 2018 14:36:49 GMT -5
I don't see the present state of the church as Christianity self-destructing. I see it as a fulfillment of scripture: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3) In other words, as people in the church embrace the things of this world and leave behind the things of God, they are simply fulfilling what God has already spoken. And those who remain true to the Lord, do so in obscurity (as others have pointed out), not seeking any earthly reward, but looking for that blessed hope and longing to hear "well done, thou good and faithful servant". Another 2 cents...
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Post by timothyu on Mar 28, 2018 14:40:52 GMT -5
No problem.. I see falling away as falling away from scriptural teaching. I see self destruction as destruction of the institution.
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Mar 28, 2018 14:58:52 GMT -5
Keep in mind, that the Church was never intended to be an institution; so if it became one, then that needs to be destroyed because an institution isn't the Bride of Christ...
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Post by timothyu on Mar 28, 2018 15:12:43 GMT -5
Agreed although i would rather say the institution of Christianity as a whole, than 'church' as some take that to be a personal attack on a certain faith. Any one faith cannot lay that claim. But it is difficult for many to see beyond the cloak of invisibility they have cast around themselves for centuries protecting themselves from in earth reality.
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Mar 28, 2018 15:19:20 GMT -5
Then I would direct those folk to take another look at the Book of Revelation: "After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” Revelation 7:9-10 That's not denominationalism, but simply the body of Christ; i.e., the church.... My nickel for today... LOL!
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Mar 28, 2018 18:02:36 GMT -5
If I'm understanding correctly we are all in agreement on "The Church" as an institution. It's not what Christianity is. My wife and I vacation all over the New England area. We go to worship at a different church wherever we are. So many of them are already dead they're just waiting for the few who are left to die. I can only surmise they are who Tim is talking about. And yet there are others that are vibrant and growing as well. Most of the growing are non denominational. Not a scientific double blind experiment It's not about Christianity as a monolithic homogeneous institution. It's a living growing body of individuals led by God through Christ. The Parable of the Sower 13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. I think this applies to churches/congregations/denominations as well as individuals. As we walk in step with Jesus we are rooted in good soil. If not...
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Post by timothyu on Mar 28, 2018 18:33:28 GMT -5
Might I say that the parable talks of landing on good soil but nothing about anyone other than God tending to how it grows so as to not try and make it over in their own image, a common fault of those trying to build or hang onto a congregation (not to mention like minded congregants who see themselves as a warring tribe). Also, too many 'churches' of the prosperous nature over the centuries have falsely claimed guidance by the HS when Jesus said the only guidance would be to protect and help those on the straight and narrow path to the Kingdom. Both are the result of a religion that no longer looks towards the Kingdom but God alone.
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Mar 28, 2018 21:14:12 GMT -5
Might I say that the parable talks of landing on good soil but nothing about anyone other than God tending to how it grows so as to not try and make it over in their own image, a common fault of those trying to build or hang onto a congregation. Also, too many 'churches' of the prosperous nature over the centuries have falsely claimed guidance by the HS when Jesus said the only guidance would be to protect and help those on the straight and narrow path to the Kingdom. Both are the result of a religion that no longer looks towards the Kingdom but God alone.
As I tell folk often, you can "Bloom where you are planted".
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Mar 29, 2018 8:02:13 GMT -5
<<<Both are the result of a religion that no longer looks towards the Kingdom but God alone.>>>
Religion is not faith. Nor is Christianity a religion IMO. It's a personal relationship with Jesus. I look toward and follow Jesus who reveals God who has called me to the Kingdom.
<<<Might I say that the parable talks of landing on good soil but nothing about anyone other than God tending to how it grows so as to not try and make it over in their own image, a common fault of those trying to build or hang onto a congregation. >>>
Anyone trying to hold onto a congregation has already lost the purpose of tending to that congregation.
And to Norms point... you can be in the most desolate God forsaken place and it doesn't matter. If you are walking in step with Jesus you are on fertile ground that will produce fruit.
Speaking of fruit. And trying to stay on topic. Does anyone have any examples in their circle of Christianity of good for nothing Christians?
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Mar 29, 2018 10:08:41 GMT -5
I'm a bi-vocational pastor of a small church in the IE; been doing this for almost 15 years now. Because I have a good job, I don't have to take a salary from the church; and at this point I can't imagine myself ever doing so. I truly believe in what scripture means when it says: "freely ye have received, freely give" (Matthew 10:8). I have been blessed greatly by the Lord, so I want to be a blessing to others with no expectation of anything in return, because he ALREADY did it all, so my service to him is simply expressing my eternal gratitude...
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Post by timothyu on Mar 29, 2018 11:44:00 GMT -5
You mean like the tradition of pot lucks that go back to the time of the Way?
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Mar 29, 2018 13:21:39 GMT -5
Is that a no? I love the pot lucks. Great way to develop relationships and get to know people better. Even minister to people you would never have known needed it. Maybe invite them to an in home bible study where they've never done that before. Or find opportunities to pray together. All kinds of opportunities to further the Kingdom.
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Post by timothyu on Mar 29, 2018 13:34:39 GMT -5
Just a thought... Any arguments that pot lucks may be one of the oldest traditions/rites of Christianity, pre-Gentile?
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Post by timothyu on Mar 31, 2018 12:46:09 GMT -5
BTW.. Good Friday is called good.
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Mar 31, 2018 16:51:32 GMT -5
That certainly wasn't good for nothing. Or was it?
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