airfresh
Full Member
Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy.
Posts: 253
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Post by airfresh on Apr 19, 2018 7:43:56 GMT -5
I'm still just trying to understand where you're coming from. I've said several times I can agree with many things you say on a micro level but I can't agree with generalizations about living for the Kingdom without knowing what you mean by it. Maybe a different line of questioning. If I wished to be a disciple of your Gospel rejecting the world's ways and living instead for the Kingdom what would you advise me would be the 5 MOST important things I should do to begin that process?
So the sin nature is overcome (rectified)by our own commitment to living in the Kingdom?
Committing to and rejecting this world for the Kingdom rectifies sin and brings eternal life?
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Post by timothyu on Apr 19, 2018 11:24:18 GMT -5
All depends on the motive doesn't it.
Would it hurt to encourage politicians and governments or those squabbling in the political threads to love neighbour/enemy as self? No. Will that love and change of system ever happen across the world? Not until Jesus destroys their system. Likewise with receiving funds. Motive. Gain at the expense of others making a self serving business out of charity, or loving neighbour/enemy as self? BTW, Mother T was often miffed that rather than spending her time with those she cared for, she had to cater to the wants of those donating to her cause because they wanted to be seen as being benevolent with their donations in the public eye. Never mind the awards and fancy receptions for me, just gimme the cash because there was work to be done. Had she not catered to the vanity of those donating there would have been far fewer funds. So doing good often requires using the sins of man against themselves but draws a lot of time better spent.
I emphasis what Jesus said, yes thank you. Other than? Do you mean repentance and spread the Gospel of the Kingdom? Couple more ditties Jesus threw in. Were you looking for something world of man friendly?
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Post by timothyu on Apr 19, 2018 11:41:25 GMT -5
Not my Gospel, Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom. What did Jesus say? Change self and not others but simply sow seeds which may or may not grow? Put the will of the Father before our own? Love neighbour/enemy as self? Repent/change seeing the merits of the ways of the Kingdom over those of man which have all lead to self, greed, strife and division? Show the fruits of that repentance? Spread the Gospel of the Kingdom and no other? Build upon foundations of what comes from God and not from man? Is that a beginning.
Rectifies sin? It shows we have an understanding of the difference between God's ways and those used by man, a difference between the two worlds. It shows we hopefully have switched allegiances. Those are they who gain the Kingdom. God does not remove the original punishment from those who prefer the adversarial ways of man.
Remember when Jesus called Peter a satan (adversary) for trying to change what God willed, yet He also praised Peter when he said Jesus was the Messiah and that the foundation of truth and the Kingdom/movement was what came from God and not from man? The choice was clear.
The Roman gentiles called followers of Jesus 'haters of man' because they refused to live within the system, preferring to follow the will of God. So the division between the world of man and the Kingdom was clear even to the gentiles who did not believe. Funny isn't it, how when the church and state amalgamated, that concept of Kingdom vs world of man that Jesus taught disappeared. It had to in order for the amalgamation to survive.
Remember how Jesus said truth came from God and not man? Which did the resulting religion of that amalgamation represent? It is the job of followers of Jesus to keep that concept of Kingdom vs world of man alive.
Just as in Jesus' time, it will create conflict, and just like in Jesus' time, not so much with worldly governments and institutions, but within the religion itself.
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 19, 2018 12:18:53 GMT -5
More vagueness from timothyu.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 19, 2018 12:28:40 GMT -5
More vagueness from timothyu. Vagueness or deliberate refusal to use discernment? Truth has a way of exposing that which contradicts the will of God, so is often rejected.
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 19, 2018 12:44:14 GMT -5
More vagueness from timothyu. Vagueness or deliberate refusal to use discernment? "Discernment" or guesswork? "God's will" or personal choice? Vagueness hides the difference.
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RNorm
Champion Member
Cry Aloud and Spare Not...
Posts: 7,030
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Post by RNorm on Apr 19, 2018 12:49:30 GMT -5
I think you're being unfair there bro. Consider the following passage: "And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods. And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of you? give an account of your stewardship; for you may be no longer steward. Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord takes away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed. I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses. So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owe you unto my lord? And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take your bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty. Then said he to another, And how much owe you? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take your bill, and write fourscore. And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when all of you fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore all of you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? And if all of you have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?" (Luke 16:1-12) Again, the Lord commended the unjust steward for bring shrewd and using business savvy. That is the same thing Mother Theresa did to make sure she had funding to help those who otherwise had no help. That's not sin on her part, and I'm sure the Lord commended her as well to make use of the opportunities available to her to help the less fortunate. My 2 cents.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 19, 2018 13:30:49 GMT -5
Is it not a matter of personal choice whether we follow the will of God or the traditional will of man? Once we make that choice then is not the HS sent to help guide us along that narrow path to the Kingdom as we continue our seeking through trial and error, learning more every day the wisdom behind God's will compared to our will?
If you want to see God's will all you have to do is hold a mirror up to the will of man to see the opposite of what we traditionally do .
I was not criticizing Mother T but those who used her to puff up their own vanity. She criticized them also for the same as I mentioned. But having to cater to their self absorbed ways was her cross to bear if she wanted what she needed to help others.
In the end she did not succumb to their self absorbed ways but allowed God to use these people's ways for His will, all while they were thinking with pride it was they who were benefiting by being seen for their benevolence..
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 19, 2018 21:01:22 GMT -5
Is it not a matter of personal choice whether we follow the will of God or the traditional will of man? Once we make that choice then is not the HS sent to help guide us along that narrow path to the Kingdom as we continue our seeking through trial and error, learning more every day the wisdom behind God's will compared to our will? We still have our free will. Sure, the Holy Spirit guides us but will not take away our free will, and we still must use our God-given intellect to follow Him. That means making use of knowledge. So what e do you have?? Opposite how? Got any specific examples?
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Post by timothyu on Apr 19, 2018 21:47:02 GMT -5
Sure, gain at the expense of others vs give. Selfless vs selfish. Love vs war. So on and so forth. Turn on the news, and for the most part every human way that precipitates what you see there... God would have us do the opposite.
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 19, 2018 21:58:42 GMT -5
I said specific Tim. You respond with vague platitudes.
I think you latched onto a set of phrases that makes you sound good (in the "ways of man") that you really don't understand.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 19, 2018 22:11:24 GMT -5
You mean like ways of the flesh vs those of the spirit?
I just gave you three specifics you breezed right over. I followed it up with a mirror example of God's ways not being man's and man's not being God's and you ignore that also.
'Ways' are the simple attitudes of each that produce the myriad of examples out there. Like instead of naming the one big sin religion goes about naming a slew of little ones to draw attention away from the big one. Why so intent on the little examples?
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 20, 2018 7:55:28 GMT -5
You mean like ways of the flesh vs those of the spirit?
I just gave you three specifics you breezed right over.
Really? Let's review those "examples":Those "3 examples" are more vague platitudes. Since you accuse most Christians and most Christian churches of "following the ways of men" it behooves you to provide specific examples. If you accuse someone of a crime, you have to state not just what crime was committed, but when, where and how. Restating the charge does not suffice. Yet, that is basically what you have done.
You may not have realized, but I had you on ignore for well over a year back at that "other place" because you talked in vague generalities, contradicted yourself and were just not worth engaging. I'm close to putting you on my GBO ignore list. I was just informed that airfresh has given up on you. It won't take RNorm long to do the same. You'll end up talking to yourself, and convincing no one.
Will talking to yourself further the "kingdom"? I doubt it.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 20, 2018 12:43:36 GMT -5
Talk about vagueness. A whole post in which you said nothing but a threat (of which I tremble at the thought of) with a side of gossip thrown in. Ignored? Boo hoo. If children want to play that game and run away because they have no other recourse in tackling a subject like the Kingdom, then so be it. God obviously has other plans for you than salvation, which I won't argue. There are only two choices after all, Kingdom or world of man.
You don't seem to grasp, or want to grasp as far as that goes, the concept that ALL of mankind in committing sins do so for one simple reason. They refuse to give the same consideration to others they expect for themselves. So there is no need to dally with little sins like theft or adultery or the other innumerable examples covered by the main sin.
As for when it has been happening... ever since the Garden and will continue until the Second Coming. Where? In every corner of the world. How? In doing every self serving thing we can at the expense of others.
You perhaps think this is normal behaviour for man as your mini-trolling shows, but God since the beginning has not only given ways to rectify those attitudes (which we put on plaques and ignore) but also sent His Son as an example and teacher stipulating in simple language and a combined commandment how we may overcome our less than godly nature. He even threw in a reward for those who chose Kingdom over world of our own making.
But again that has never been of interest to those who think this world (we have built upon principles opposing those of God) needs to be defended. They, like you, mock what Jesus taught and those who repeat it. They have their reward.
As for furthering the Kingdom, unlike man who demands we further our system, God only asks that we sow seeds, not shove them down the throats of anyone or force them to grow in a particular way as man is prone to do. Whether anyone takes interest in the Kingdom is up to God. The rest can keep their world or their world aligned gentile religion. They too have their reward.
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 23, 2018 8:24:30 GMT -5
With Tim on ignore, let's get back on topic.
I think we all agree that Christians should not allow allegiance to political parties to replace faith in Jesus Christ. But when this topic was first opened in "that other place," the issue was that the Democratic Party in particular, espoused political positions that Christians could not agree to, and therefore, Christians should rethink any support they give to the Democratic Party or its candidates.
The most prominent issue was and is abortions rights. The Democratic Party in its national platform demands the legal right to an abortion on demand, for any reason, at any stage of pregnancy. And increasingly, pro-life Democratic politicians have been frozen out, at the national level and frequently at the state and local levels.
Does anyone disagree with this?
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