airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Mar 31, 2018 17:32:11 GMT -5
This was a hot topic in the place we shall not mention. I thought since this is Easter weekend I'd resurrect the topic but with a new life. And I put it in the Christianity board on purpose because I think it's time for Christians to leave both parties. No I think it's time we left politics ... period. It divides us. It causes us to rationalize the very things we despise. It causes us to engage in behavior we are commanded to stop. It pits brother and sister against brother and sister. And most important it distracts us from our purpose. I would go so far as to call it sin.
1 Peter 2
2 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.
When passionately engaging in and being caught up in politics which of those is not exhibited by the candidates themselves and the most ardent supporters? And how does that bring honor and glory to God?
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Post by timothyu on Mar 31, 2018 18:55:05 GMT -5
Finally some rational thinking with a couple of tablespoons of discernment..
How does it show allegiance to the Kingdom over instead, the world mankind has made in rebellion?
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 1, 2018 7:26:12 GMT -5
Yes and might I add... putting your faith in men and laws made by those same men to do for you what is for God through Christ is a fools errand. And on one hand is a distraction and on a deeper level is a false god. The "Law" was handed to the prophets directly from God thousands of years ago. How did that work for them then? If our passion and energy is in creating laws through the political process we have lost our way. I will vote my conscience but I will not be consumed by the process and I will never again be seduced by parties or candidates into thinking they are anything more than fallen humans corrupted by the political belief that our laws are anything more than a mirror to our own brokenness. As were God's laws. Think about that. Today's laws are written by men. Old Testament laws were written by God. Neither had the power to change a single life. Our power is not in laws or the political process it's in Jesus. Happy Easter
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Post by timothyu on Apr 1, 2018 12:19:51 GMT -5
Was the purpose to change a single life? Or was the purpose to give an option, just as Adam and Eve were given.
When we exercise self will we have committed the same sin as Eve and Adam. They were punished for the first time, but we have already been punished by exile into this penal colony world to reap what we sow against each other and to die in the flesh. Beautiful world yes, but not so beautiful that it cannot be sacrificed to suffer as it has under mankind's dominion. Yet nature will only tolerate us for so long without making adjustments that may not include us.
A simple way to right the wrong deeds of man. The laws of the prophets gave options to the traditional self serving ways of mankind. Jesus summed them all up in His two commandments, a direct optional way to the character of mankind. The Kingdom world stands as the ultimate option to the world man has made in our image.
All options, choice for change. World of man OR Kingdom of God, the only divisive 'politics' condoned by God because the division promotes no aggression on the part of the Kingdom.
The worldly, the worldly Christians, and the Lord Lords will do everything in their power to discredit those options, saying the Law and works cannot save us. But they to not mean that, yes we must first accept the option and reject that which it opposes before the new journey begins. Rather they will us, in fact demand, that we should ignore the option altogether in order that THEIR refusal to accept the option will not expose them for who they are.
Take note religious right. The Adversary and it's minions in mankind have no use for the options while they quote scripture to self justify themselves
Matthew 23: 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Matthew 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 2, 2018 9:45:58 GMT -5
The King of Trumplandia is the leader of the Republican Party. Yesterday, in response to a question about Easter, he said: "Well, it really means something very special. I’m going to church in an hour from now and it’s going to be — it’s a beautiful church. I’m in Florida.” “And it’s just a very special time for me. And it really represents family and get-together and — and something, you know, if you’re a — a Christian, it’s just a very important day" When the leader of the party claims to be a Christian and says that about the most important day in Christianity, a statement that doesn't mention Jesus or the Resurrection, then one should question why the leader of a party that claims to be the party for evangelicals apparently doesn't know much of anything about Christianity...
This isn't fake news, unless you consider "The Daily Caller" a manufacturer of fake news...
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Post by timothyu on Apr 2, 2018 11:48:08 GMT -5
He's just staying within the parameters of the religious right and was probably distracted by a bunny of some sort. But this is just one of innumerable instances where man uses God for his own purpose rather than change to serve the will of God.
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 2, 2018 12:52:47 GMT -5
Politicians cloak themselves in religion. To use Tim's thought... use God for their own purposes. Our current president doesn't even know how to do even that. Norm's quote shows he has no clue what yesterday was about. He is truly the Emperor with no clothes.
The man is not only NOT a republican he is also NOT a Christian. Talking about communion he said this... “When I drink my little wine — which is about the only wine I drink — and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed,”
He's also a perfect example for the OP resurrecting this topic.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 2, 2018 13:59:04 GMT -5
Is this becoming political or anti-political as intended?
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 2, 2018 15:01:56 GMT -5
Well, when the leader of the GOP clearly demonstrates that he is totally clueless in regards to the tenants of the Christian faith, and to add insult to injury, you have hordes of Evangelical Christians excusing, defending and justify this man as being "chosen by God", it makes one wonder, which "god" are they referring to -- the God of all Power, or the god of this world" SMH
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 2, 2018 15:38:26 GMT -5
With regard to Trump a little of both. He's a perfect example of what the topic is about and why. And a good example of much of what you've posted here and similar thoughts in other topics "But this is just one of innumerable instances where man uses God for his own purpose rather than change to serve the will of God."
Whether it is a Christian running for and winning political office or an individual supporting "either" political party it is impossible to live that (political) life without compromising your walk with Christ.
I posted this in the OP... 1 Peter 2 2 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.
I'll add this... Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
All of this... Malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, slander, foolish controversies, dissensions and quarrels about the law... are not only present but most of that is necessary in today's political world. 5 minutes watching a news show centered on politics reveals that.
Making political solutions a priority in your life puts you in a position of compromising your obedience to God for obedience to political expediency. And that is certainly unprofitable and worthless. My dig at Trump fitting that category.
Norm <<<you have hordes of Evangelical Christians excusing, defending and justify this man as being "chosen by God", it makes one wonder, which "god" are they referring to -- the God of all Power, or the god of this world" >>>
I would say this world and example of why ALL Christians should leave their chosen party and exit politics. Politics is a false god.
Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
I would add you cannot serve God and politics.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 2, 2018 16:15:06 GMT -5
My vote is for this description. Although a lesser god of the people, a little horn of a greater god as represented by those that we all know who are more proficient at the job. I could say even this lesser god serves the purpose of the world, in that the world as a result of him, may never bow to this kind of weakness again. MAD Magazine come to life.
But it is precisely these lesser gods who would be willing to proclaim themselves god rather than remain loyal to the system itself. I doubt the system will tolerate it for long once his usefulness is over. The rule of fleshy man is gain at the expense of others.
IMO however I believe that man mimicking God, will in our own fallen angel way, create AI which in turn will rebel against us as we did God, and eventually proclaim itself god. And so on it goes.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 2, 2018 16:48:19 GMT -5
Can a follower of Jesus support what these people support... the institutions of mankind? Are those institutions build upon the will of God before our own and loving neighbour/enemy as self? We have had throughout history those bad and those good ruling over nations. Some built their empires on the self serving attitudes of man, some on ethics of the Ten Commandments or Christianity itself. Some were completely of the world, some managed a balancing act between the two. But it has been many decades since any balance has been shown and in your case Mr. Smith will never get to Washington. Those days are over. And NEVER will we have a human leader who can rule by the principles of the Kingdom.. and survive.
I have been saying this for over 8 years back in the old forums, and have had an equal number of years of mockery and discrediting at the hands of the religious right and others. But I am thankful for their aggression and worldly ways, for the bigger the hole they dug for themselves forking out their self serving fruit, the further away I would move from their world, until at last I learned to look beyond. But their anger and behind the scenes false witness has continued simply because I refused to play their game. While they are out in their armour stomping in the name of God on anything that disagrees with them (evil they call it), I simply stood aside and proclaimed the Kingdom and it's alternate ways to the world man has built. It's funny how a non-aggressive gospel can create such hostility but a hostility that cannot defeat Jesus' Gospel, not even with theirs. So instead the focus becomes on the man, not the message so that they may not lose face with each other. It is the only way they have been taught and not broken free of yet and the basis of their politics and divisive nature.
What mankind has taught us (out of self preservation of who we are) and especially what Christianity has taught us to justify itself for working in allegiance with man's world, is what holds us back. Seeing what goes on in the world is a rather quick study of hypocrisy, but finding the Gospel of the Kingdom in Christianity, was the key to setting me free from gentile Christianity to see beyond.
Mankind, which knows no other way, teaches from birth to grow in their own image. Christianity does the same, sowing genetically modified seeds that (unlike God's) need constant care, manipulation and aggressive threats to insure they grow in gentile Christianity's image. Neither focus on the Kingdom for then both would be exposed as anti-Messiah in nature, living opposite to the will of God, as the Gospel of the Kingdom was the Messiah's Gospel. They don't want a Messiah to set them free from the only thing they know... the world man has built. I think they fear the unknown.
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 3, 2018 6:21:34 GMT -5
<<<Can a follower of Jesus support what these people support... the institutions of mankind? Are those institutions build upon the will of God before our own and loving neighbour/enemy as self?>>>
Depends on what you mean. I'm talking about politics. The political process of electing lawmakers. I'm not advocating walking away from responsibility to be aware of who is running for office and using our discernment to vote our conscience and our faith. As flawed as that may be.
1 Timothy 2:1-2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way
Our discernment comes from those supplications, intercessions and prayers. And responsible accounting of a candidates votes on the issues most concerning us. Not from engaging in political rallies, political commercials or political debates.
As to institutions...
1 Peter 2:13-17 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.
At least unless or until they ask us to disobey God... Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
Our discernment depends on our relationship with Jesus. The closer that relationship the keener that discernment is. The path to that relationship is the Bible and the extent we are obedient to His teaching. I would add the closer that relationship is the more transparent we become. The more we become like Jesus the more others see Him and not ourselves.
THAT is our answer to political malice, hypocrisy, slander, foolish controversies, and dissensions and quarrels among us... as Christians. Politics CREATES all of that. It causes us to hate each other. Jesus teaches to hate those things. And love each other.
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 3, 2018 10:17:06 GMT -5
Initially, the answer is yes, because all citizens are supposed to engage in the process (see the verses Airfresh posted). But as time goes on, there comes a point where one has to question how far do they go in their support and what would Jesus do. We know that Jesus paid taxes, so we should do the same, but we also know that he remained above the fray, so he was free to call it as it was, because he was no beholden to anyone. When a believer compromises his positions on the issues frequently, over time, they become salt that no longer has it savor, and have diminished their own ability to influence the process for good (kind of like what's happening with Evangelicals and the King of Trumplandia right now).
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Post by timothyu on Apr 3, 2018 11:59:35 GMT -5
We may immerse ourselves in the cares and troubles of the world.. or not. We have the choice. And that choice IMO is realistic compared to the false choices given man by man, choices designed to keep them immersed in the world.
The Adversary is proud of those who give choices, be it issues or choice of sides. Choices which always both benefit the powers of this world no matter which side is chosen. Chosen by people desperate to have a voice in their own misdirection and downfall as they focus on this world rather than the Kingdom. The same applies to divisive right/left nonsense or whatever.
Jesus' way was an alternative, a third choice which the world is not fond of and will attempt to destroy.
He remained above the fray because He was the third option. A third option is not in the best interest of a species that thrives on division because a third option often forces the one of the original two to compromise with the third option. If that third option is for the good of mankind as Jesus was then any compromise will have to produce good fruit.
We had a preacher turned politician here who did just that and as a result not only is he called the greatest politician of our nation but the greatest person. As a result of following Jesus' lead we have free and equal health care, three senior pensions available if needed to have a liveable income, unemployment insurance and many other safety net services because of him. Services which to this day the greedy, self serving politicians and business/financial types have been trying to dismantle ever since, but must walk carefully as their rotten fruits are so unappealing to the masses..
This is the power of the third option that Jesus represented. Much better than a monarchy/dictatorship or two party system with both trying to claim they represent or do the will of God when neither do.
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