RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 3, 2018 12:10:09 GMT -5
You cannot destroy what can't be seen...
"as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal" (2 Corinthians 4:18)
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Post by timothyu on Apr 3, 2018 12:23:15 GMT -5
Yet Jesus was destroyed as a human option to both Jewish religion and Rome. His followers The Way was destroyed and replaced by a system resembling the hierarchy and institutions of Rome. Original Christianity was destroyed and replaced by a gentile fabrication working alongside of the world of man with the same purpose of control and power over the masses.
Putting the will of God first which is love neighbour/enemy as self can be seen but is most often ignored, reworked for gain or stomped out at earliest convenience. Such is the way of mankind that is the basis for all our institutions. There is a lot of self justification to have it represent God, but God was clear with His choice... world of man or Kingdom.
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 3, 2018 12:47:00 GMT -5
LOL, the fact that we're sitting here thousands of years later, STILL talking about Jesus shows that he wasn't destroyed. Moreover, those truly walking in his footsteps have not been destroyed either, because there are true disciples here and there. Again, he said that not many will find it, nevertheless, we should strive to find it and enter therein: "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matthew 7:13-14) He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able" (Luke 13:22-24)
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 3, 2018 13:06:12 GMT -5
And yet Jesus nickname was "friend of tax collectors and sinners"
He didn't turn his back on the world of man. He entered it, lived in it, learned to be a carpenter, questioned the political leaders of his day and through His love and grace in the face of violent opposition changed the world forever. He didn't beat them over the head with how wrong they were he showed "the way" to the narrow gate of the Kingdom.
<<<Yet Jesus was destroyed as a human option to both Jewish religion and Rome.>>>
And what about the humans who taught the Gospel after Jesus death? Who wrote about their experiences with Him. And wrote the Epistles and more inspired by Him and the Holy Spirit. And the humans who became disciples of Jesus through that teaching. And taught others throughout history with Jesus help. No they did not destroy Jesus as a human option. While the Roman empire went where? The existence of Christians who have lost their "way" doesn't invalidate Jesus, His teaching, the Bible or his influence.
While I agree with your biblical and human nature principles on a micro level. I don't on a macro level.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 3, 2018 13:40:02 GMT -5
I said as a human option.. you know.. at the time. But yes the message remains. However those seeking it will rarely find it simply because they are looking for it here, rather than beyond the realm of man. Much effort has gone into covering up the Kingdom by mankind in earth and in Christianity. They have too much to lose.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 3, 2018 13:49:30 GMT -5
Of course He did. How else do you reach the sick. But He didn't become sick himself in order to reach or relate to them.
Nor did He hide himself away safe in the so called knowledge of their salvation while also hiding away from anything that threatened that concept of their salvation. There was a whole thread dedicated to that in GB for Christians so falsely secure in Jesus that they feared anything different than themselves and hid out there only to venture into the politics threads where they were at home..
Jesus and His early followers lived a way of life, alternate to the traditional way man preferred to live. As a result of their existence, the only harm that befell anyone at the time, was not even Rome, but only the religious leaders who saw their authority usurped. That was the only enemy they had, while others may only have ridiculed.. The same would/does happen today. .
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 3, 2018 13:54:37 GMT -5
The whole point of William Tyndale's sacrifice was so that every man could have the Bible to read in his own hand. And his death was not in vain. His work comprises approximately 85% of the KJV, which is he most read bible in the world; and from the KJV, we have numerous versions in almost every language known to man. That means its on each individual to read the Bible for themselves and come to know the Lord on a personal and individual level. So it doesn't matter what the world or the church (false or otherwise) is doing. All that matters is that we tell people about the Lord and how they can come to know him themselves by reading his word. The same word that has endured for centuries, even as man (and sometimes including the church) has tried to hide, change or even destroy it. For God himself said:
"The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever." (Isaiah 40:8)
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Post by timothyu on Apr 3, 2018 14:00:22 GMT -5
Of course and they killed him for it and tried to destroy all copies. The power of the church was in keeping the scriptures from mankind because the truth was in the scriptures, not the religion. The Kingdom is in the scriptures, not in the religion, and the church has tried to mimic it as a false earthly representation.
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 3, 2018 14:46:33 GMT -5
Bro, I think you're focusing too much on what people are doing and as a result, not seeing what God has done and is doing. Yes, Tyndale was killed but his work lives on, even today. Moreover, consider the following: "The translators of the Revised Standard Version in the 1940s noted that Tyndale's translation inspired the translations that followed, including the Great Bible of 1539, the Geneva Bible of 1560, the Bishops' Bible of 1568, the Douay-Rheims Bible of 1582–1609, and the King James Version of 1611, of which the RSV translators noted: "It [the KJV] kept felicitous phrases and apt expressions, from whatever source, which had stood the test of public usage. It owed most, especially in the New Testament, to Tyndale". Many scholars today believe that such is the case." (Wiki) All of us posting herein are benefiting and continuing Tyndale's work, so it did NOT die off as some hoped. And through his work, look at all who have been saved because he was willing to lay down his life for using his God given gifts to bless mankind...Kinda like all of us who are saved because Jesus was willing to lay down his life for mankind...
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Post by timothyu on Apr 3, 2018 14:53:03 GMT -5
Of course. That is why I said, "The power of the church was in keeping the scriptures from mankind because the truth was in the scriptures, not the religion." So it lives on, in part thanks to Tyndale, no thanks to the church/religion of the time. The same applies today. He who controls the data, controls the world.
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 4, 2018 6:55:59 GMT -5
Which is why Bible teaching churches are thriving while others aren't... and in my experience... seem to be contracting. It's hard to say. The telescopic view that is fed to us via media of all kinds and the telescopic view we as flawed self centered humans seek can color the reality.
I was once taught that there is both a red dog and a white dog within us. The red dog is our negative nature seeking negative food. The white dog is our more positive nature seeking the more positive food. There may be a good/evil metaphor in there as well. There's a battle for those thoughts. The more we feed one or the other the stronger one grows the weaker the other. There is some biblical precedent on this thought...
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
We find what we are looking or in life. We don't see the world as it is necessarily. We see it as we are.
Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
The world I live in is a bible reading bible teaching bible studying world. I realize there is another one out there. My commission is to persuade those who live in that other world that they have a friend who loves them so much He was willing to die for them. God's intended will for my life is in the bible. It involves loving those people as He loved me. One at a time. Like a medic in a war zone entering the battlefield to tend to a wounded broken soldier. Everything else is just noise to distract me from saving that one life.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 4, 2018 9:52:41 GMT -5
IMO bible study groups (and especially churches) without the basic ground rule that all scripture leads to the Messiah's Kingdom (and the Gospel of the Kingdom as the primary gospel) are like the Jews who wandered in the desert for a generation never finding home and simply seeking that which will sustain them for the day.
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 4, 2018 10:11:57 GMT -5
I hear you. Though I disagree. I have often read the Amplified Bible. I like what it says about this...
"So will My word be which goes out of My mouth; It will not return to Me void (useless, without result), Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."
If you are reading and studying the Bible you may not be as in control as you think. If you're reading it's He who is speaking to the reader. It's He who is at work. When I first started reading the Bible I was not a believer. I was reading without an ability to fully understand and was certainly mistaken about some/most of what I was reading. But it was one factor among many that led me to Christ which led to a much deeper ability to understand what He was saying in His Word.
He can speak to anyone who reads His Word no?
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RNorm
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Post by RNorm on Apr 4, 2018 10:12:31 GMT -5
However, let us not forget that there was a reason they were wandering and never found a home -- they were disobedient and lacked faith; so their wandering was a consequence of their actions: "As I live, declares the Lord, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you: your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against me, not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. But your little ones, who you said would become a prey, I will bring in, and they shall know the land that you have rejected. But as for you, your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness. And your children shall be shepherds in the wilderness forty years and shall suffer for your faithlessness, until the last of your dead bodies lies in the wilderness." (Numbers 14:28-33)
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Post by timothyu on Apr 4, 2018 11:12:29 GMT -5
Absolutely. The stumbling block is what the world of man or the religion has put into a person's mind first. Rather than read Jesus talking about the Kingdom, they end up asking themselves how does this relate to my world?
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