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Post by timothyu on Apr 4, 2018 11:16:17 GMT -5
Exactly, just like Christians who wander through the desert of religion for years before ever finding the Gospel of the Kingdom. A consequence of their actions because they were trained in what to to follow, a different path designed to bring God into our world rather than leave it for Him, and they spent their time looking for scriptures to support their world rather than leave the world behind travelling the road to the Kingdom.
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Post by chopin on Apr 10, 2018 4:09:58 GMT -5
I will not speak about Democratic Party, but I would leave Liberal Party of Canada for sure !
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Post by timothyu on Apr 10, 2018 13:02:09 GMT -5
For what? Another party? Another way of life?
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 10, 2018 14:45:12 GMT -5
Good question Tim
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 10, 2018 20:55:10 GMT -5
A Christian should not be putting his/her faith in anything less than God Himself -- not in any worldy system that can masquerade as the Messiah. That includes those things called political parties.
That having been said, we as Christians are commanded by Our Lord not only to "give to God what is God's" but to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's". In a democracy, that surely includes taking part in the political process, commensurate with our circumstances, abilities and other responsibilities ("Caesar" being in this case, our fellow citizens). At the very least, that includes casting an informed vote and could include advocating for considered positions for the public good.
To be effective, that requires involvement with political parties, specifically in the US, either the Democratic or the Republican parties.
But, while both parties are corrupted by the self-serving pressures of the political process, one party is additionally corrupted by its governing ideology -- an ideology which is anti-life, anti-family, which at times is openly (as opposed to merely covertly) anti-Christian.
Is there really any doubt as to which party I'm referring to?
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Post by timothyu on Apr 10, 2018 21:13:51 GMT -5
No doubt and a perfect example of self justification. A traditional method used by man to cover the fact they defend man's will over God's. Does either party love neighbour/enemy as self? Hardly. So we pretend one is better than the other (hand picking minimal examples of right and wrong) to avoid living by another option which convicts both said parties.
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 11, 2018 7:35:06 GMT -5
<<<A Christian should not be putting his/her faith in anything less than God Himself -- not in any worldy system that can masquerade as the Messiah. That includes those things called political parties.>>>
I certainly agree with that. It's basically what my OP is about. I part ways with what came after.
<<< At the very least, that includes casting an informed vote and could include advocating for considered positions for the public good.>>>
Casting an informed vote doesn't require advocating for a party. It's in the advocating where we as Christians become political animals that ... IMO... creates an idol in our lives. I've posted this in both web sites
1 Peter 2:1 2 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.
One look at the exchange between Christians on this or the other site advocating political issues exhibits every one of these characteristics.
I've also posted this
Galatians 5:6 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
To a large degree circumcision was a political dividing line at that time. Valued by political spiritual leaders. Becoming an advocate for a political party, promoting a political party becomes like advocating for circumcision IMO. It takes away from and distracts from what is important ... our faith expressing itself through love. Faith... centered on Christ death and resurrection... for what... salvation. Which does what? Changes lives. Which does what? Changes the world we live in. Does politics accomplish that? Do our laws accomplish that?
The "Law" was handed to the prophets thousands of years ago DIRECTLY from God. It was even called God's Law at the time. And changed not a single life.
The only important thing is faith expressing itself through love. That is impossible through political parties. IMO
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 11, 2018 7:52:51 GMT -5
And If I can add. I'm not saying I don't have conversations centered on political issues. I have changed my approach. I no longer advocate for a party or candidate. I stick to policy rather than party. I will favor what I believe to be best for the common good regardless of party. I don't defend a party or particular candidate. Jesus advocated for the common good not for a political cause. He advocated against the political elite as a whole and defended the poor, vulnerable and mistreated. Not political issues.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 11, 2018 12:03:30 GMT -5
Does this mean there will be mission work done among the religious right in the political threads to bring them out of their tribal aggressive and divisive ways?
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 11, 2018 13:36:14 GMT -5
Consider this topic a small first step.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 11, 2018 13:42:42 GMT -5
Unlikely as they isolate themselves from anything that may upset the fragile self justified view of worldly Christianity and put their secular allegiances to the flame..
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Post by gth (Columbus OH) on Apr 11, 2018 20:53:58 GMT -5
And If I can add. I'm not saying I don't have conversations centered on political issues. I have changed my approach. I no longer advocate for a party or candidate. I stick to policy rather than party. I will favor what I believe to be best for the common good regardless of party. I don't defend a party or particular candidate. Jesus advocated for the common good not for a political cause. He advocated against the political elite as a whole and defended the poor, vulnerable and mistreated. Not political issues. I think we agree more than we disagree. I don't advocate for any party or candidate at all except as a means to an end -- just and responsible public policies and laws -- which themselves are only means to the common good. How that works out is a prudential judgement -- a matter of using the human wisdom God gave us -- and we can arrives at different conclusions in specific situations. Despite that I have voted for Republican candidates and issues far more often than not, that does not mean I consider myself a Republican. I am a Christian, a followers of Jesus Christ, then an American who loves his country (as did Jesus), then, as a consequence of the previous, a social conservative. That I happen to mostly vote Republican is a matter of convenience, a measure that the GOP meets my positions, some of which are backed by Christian conviction, far more often than the Democratic alternative, which hardly ever does. None of which means I mistake politics or political parties for reallly advancing the cause of Christ. In fact, I disapproved of the often slavish support and approval many evangelical Christian leaders gave Donald Trump in 2016, and continue to do so today, simply because Trump is not-Democrat, not-pro-abortion, not-anti-Christian, Such support compromised the integrity of those leaders, and the cause of Christ. BTW, I do respect both pacifism and political non-involvement in the name of Christ. I just don't feel either is mandatory for a Christian. And while I want to respect timotyu's views, I have found that in the past, at that "other place" he has a very hard time describing just what he does believe.
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Post by timothyu on Apr 11, 2018 21:32:03 GMT -5
What I believe is rather simple. Christians can side with whatever it is of mankind they think represents their God, most often claiming God represent them. But God Himself said nothing of man represents Him. He is of the Kingdom and our choice is to pretend we can combine world and Kingdom, or chose Kingdom over world built upon man's alternate ways. Pockets of civilization can and do mimic the Kingdom, but the major players never do and the greater the world player, the further from God they are as they struggle to defend their material life.
'Free' mankind does not get to choose, but are given their choices in order that they may think they are free in a world run by those who seek gain at the expense of others. Either choice suits the needs of the powerful. The Kingdom gives without need of conning the little guy in order to protect itself from rebellion. People brainwashed to think the ways of man are the only way, will never see the Kingdom.
So... world man has built OR Kingdom. The only division we are allowed.
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airfresh
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Post by airfresh on Apr 12, 2018 5:36:12 GMT -5
<<<I think we agree more than we disagree. >>>
Always.
Tim it appears you have a deeply held belief that Christianity as a whole has failed. Took a wrong turn 1700 years ago in search of the narrow gate and has been lost in the desert ever since. Am I wrong?
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Post by timothyu on Apr 12, 2018 10:44:55 GMT -5
I won't argue that Gentile Christianity failed us at the hands of those scrambling to represent Christendom under the authority and direction of the State. That is where Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom and the Kingdom itself got blind-sided by the world of man. Mark one up for the Adversary. Except for pockets here and there or through the occasional truth seeker within the faith, for the most part the division between world of man and the Kingdom was over, and the Gospel of the Kingdom not to be preached again because it showed the hypocrisy of this marriage of secular world and church, regardless of which one followed that original Greek church of Constantine.
Thus official Christianity whored itself to the world of man for the power and authority it gained and the blind have mislead the blind ever since. The religion could no longer teach the division between Kingdom and world of man as Jesus had done, hence severe alteration in theology and gospel occurred. That is why scripture, where the truth lies, was held from the public for so many centuries in favour of theology (religious philosophy). By the time it was available to the public, Christianity had become more focused on traditional theology and ritual than the truth of Jesus' teachings in scripture regarding the Kingdom vs world of man. So it is today. A simple misdirection for over 1700 years.
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